Kimkins Diet

[Snez]

Has anyone tried kimkins:
wwwDOTkimkinsDOTcom (replace the word dot with a .)
It is low carb, low cal and low fat. For people who are stalling and for fast weight loss.

[Miestar]

Have had a look at the site awhile ago...don't you have to pay to register and then "Kimmers" helps you. She lost alot really quickly from what I remember, sounded too good to be true.

[Sherrie]

Yes it costs $$$ I had thing on it from before it went to a $$$ plan, I'll see if I can find it.

Its very low calorie

[Sherrie]

Still looking for the particular one I'm after but heres the fitday example of what she ate that she gives people: Kimkims fitday (http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Kimmer&Year=2001&Month=7&Day=7)

Basically it is about doing very strict atkins (atkins dandr 92 I think) but with limited protein (70-90g per day) and as little fat as you can handle.

It is to achieve fast weight loss like any other crash diet but without the hunger ALA ketosis, like Tony Ferguson but true low carb and no meal replacement shakes.

I know its low carb BUT what are most peoples complaints of in the past...
For example, how many overweight people are still overweight and turning to low carb because they keep regaining the weight they lost doing assorted low fat crash diets (eg soup diet, protein shake diets, egg diet yada yada) and basically yo yoing all their life. Where has that left their metabolisms now?

Which leads me to... how is this any different? :confused:

[DOINGIT]

Which leads me to... how is this any different?


It Ain't I don't think. We all know there is NO QUICK FIX. It has to be a doable thing that will become a wol cause otherwise we are juts fooling outselves. LC on induction kind of falls into this but it is only for 2 weeks and then you revert to very healthy eating... no hunger and positive results that will take time but will happen. Then you can maintain if you are sensible and don't say EVERY day oh this is just a treat. All those treats got us where we don't want to be. Not to say no treats ever but be sensible.
REMEMER CONSEQUENCES ;)

[Sherrie]

I'm still trying to find the particular post I am after, its on the low carb friends board. There is heaps of info on it there but this particular post had heaps of info. Anyway while looking I see a post in 2004 of what she eats to maintain her loss:

I still eat the same as when I was losing, except I add more carbs from veggies and fruit. I can now eat 2-3 pieces a day. But, I keep my fats low due to calories. I still avoid "white" ... sugar, rice, potatoes, bread, pasta. On occasion, I do have a baked potato w/butter but the calories of the butter mean I have to keep my carbs lower for the day. It's a balancing act, but it works for me.

My total daily carbs now are 45-75 depending. I still use butter, olive oil, bacon fat for eggs ... just smaller amounts (calories).

I haven't a clue for calories because I don't use Fitday anymore, but I would guess 1100-1500? I'm sedentary and that's my calorie limit ... although if I were doing low fat high carb (Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig type), I'd have to stay below 1100 for life.

Now I used to eat alot of food on 1500 calories with lots of fat so I am thinking shes maintaining at a pretty low level. Mind you this post (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=2704071&postcount=67) was in 2004

[Sherrie]

This (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=431457) isn't the one I wanted but it is extensive.

Personally I think it is not a good idea. I was reading in a thread where one person commented that she (kimmer) has a thyroid condition then another comment followed saying that yes she does but it is not from doing Kimkins

Then I read her story on the link above (scroll down) where she states she has been doing stillmans etc off and on since she was sixteen years old, and other advice by her on water fasting.

Well it certainly makes one wonder...

Like Tony Ferguson my biggest problem with this is the contradiction/hypocrisy. Low carber's will bash assorted low fat crash diets yet promote this as some big revolution because it is "low carb"

Well half these crash diets probably weren't that much different and probably put you in just as good a level of ketosis as they do... so whats the difference...

[DOINGIT]

Exactly....

[Snez]

Losing the weight is easy to some degree but I think the hard part is the maintaining.
Some of the success stories on Kimkins are really quite good. What's the site - viva la low carb or something has a few stories on his site re kimkins.
http://wwwDOTkimkinsDOTcom/content/blogsection/5/30/

[Sherrie]

Sue sorry for being so skeptical but I suspect the reason a lot of the stories are on Jimmy's blog are because they are paid advertising.

On the subject of the success stories, I am looking at them now and they just seem to be focused on the short term weightloss. Lets keep this in perspective here in that on a diet like this that revolves around big numbers and fast weight loss, it would have to be VERY EASY to get success stories over the short term. From what I can tell people are flocking there to her like a magnet and we all know why, with all those people doing it she would want to have some success stories. The amount of followers she had on the low carb friends forum is unreal.

To me I see it as a very clever business plan, she would have to be making some good doula.

Just remember if you do it, keep it as short as possible, don't exercise heavy , if you find yourself in a place where no matter how little you eat you do not lose, get fatigue, lose strength, massive cravings and your truely not cheating etc STOP, don't go back to eating junk just slowly start eating more food and fat.

Make sure you work on your eating habits as well and when you finish it keep working on them and weigh yourself frequently so you can keep your new weight in check but expect to regain some just from added nutrition, fluid etc. The frequent weighing is very important IMO

[Snez]

I'm skeptical too. Just wanted to see what the fuss was all about.

[DOINGIT]

ANYTHING that promisses FAST w/l is not going to be healthy IMO.
It is life style changes that one needs to make and to learn. Otherwise it i a yo yo syndrom and not healthy.

[LC_Dave]

Sherrie, I agree with your concerns,

I am actually a member of her site. I paid to join last year.

Why? Curiosity. I buy so many books etc, I wanted to know what it's all about.

The money is actually to be a member of the site. That's it. Similar to this site. I have no issues with that, becaus ethese boards cost money.

What I did note from reading most of the posts that there are only a few experienced low carbers there. The rest are new to low carb.

It is unfortunately catering to the 'worst' behaviour of dieters - teh quick fix.

As you guys might know, I made a conscious decision to give up 'quick fixes' years ago!

There have been times in the last six months where I have been tempted to do a quick fix. I tried Kimkins for half a day and couldn't stand the hunger.

It's not for me.

[Sherrie]

Yeah I am still reading up on her old posts etc and really don't have a very good opinion.

The way I see it, she looks great now as far as we know, thats great! BUT straight from the horses mouth she has been doing extreme 'quick fix' diets since she was 16, first one being stillmans and she has been water fasting since 20 (first fast being for 45 days!). She has bad thyroid problems and there was a couple of other things that I have read today/yesterday that ain't coming to me right now. But despite all this she has battled obesity all her life and at the very least was very obese just a few years ago...

I hope now she continues to maintain and leads a healthy life but in my opinion as far as quick fix dieting goes she is NOT a success story. Going by one of her posts where she talks about some tests she has had dome she is at the very least 47 years old, thats a long time being obese and crash dieting/fasting I really hope her influence is a good one and doesn't lead many people down the same path as hers.

Yeah websites cost money but for $40 US, it would have to be one massive forum using up massive amounts of bandwidth! ;)

Of course theres her time and her advertising costs but still she would have to have a pretty good profit margin :)

[Snez]

A lot of the new members are not very cluey about low carb. Also, I'm concerned that they cut out a lot of fat. I think this will stuff up their hormones. Its better to cut back on the protein if experiencing a stall, but not to under-eat protein.
From her posts Kimmer seems very nice. A lot of the ladies I think have put her up on a pedestal. Its almost like they see her as some kind of guru.
In one of her posts she mentioned something about losing muscle mass that is not required. I can't remember the exact words - when you lose weight you also lose muscle mass that your body doesn't need anymore because you are not carting around as much weight. That didn't sound right to me? She likened it to body-builders that stop training and their muscles shrink. But its different when a body-builder's muscle shrinks to actually losing or catabolism of muscle? What do you think Sherrie?

[Sherrie]

Sue, I'm not sure if this is coming out right but to me a body builders aim really is to go above and beyond their natural muscle mass. How big your muscles are, are not a direct indicator of your strength, I mean you don't need to necassarily have all that much extra muscle to carry some extra weight, I say necassarily because I think other things like hormones contribute to strength aswell not just the size of your muscle, does that make sense?

A body builder needs to worry about retaining muscle mass because size is his aim, because he has so much extra it is alot easier for him to lose mass.

Sorry if I'm not making much sense, but what I mean isn't quite coming out they way I want it to atm hehe

Look at females we don't really put on in size to match our strength, it is not relative or atleast I don't believe it is. Not only that because we don't really put on muscle all that easy we don't lose it all that easy, thanks to our hormones. IMO another reason why we don't want to lose any when losing weight because we don't have a great deal of it as it is!

I don't want to be a skinny fat!!! Do you?

[LC_Dave]

I think Kimmer is a genuinely nice person and she does care.

I think people are attracted to her plan because of the quick fix element, which she promotes.

Now, the quick fix element - the goods and bads are debateable.

Getting rid of all the body fat is a good thing.

My concern with 'my diet' (and I'm not talking Kimkins) has always been - long term maintenance. Can I keep this off. Because if I can't, then I probably need weight loss surgery.

So for me, higher fat, slower loss, more subtle lifestyle changes were important.

The downside for me is that I still obese, and not getting the 'thrills' of success.

But you know what? Me, personally, I don't want 'thrills of success', I just want health and fitness for me. I don't want to be all over the moon, I just want to live a normal healthy and happy life.

[DOINGIT]

But you know what? Me, personally, I don't want 'thrills of success', I just want health and fitness for me. I don't want to be all over the moon, I just want to live a normal healthy and happy life.


I couldn't agree more with you and you have said it so well.

Health and vitality and happienss to you.

[Snez]

Thanks Dave and Sherrie.
Sherrie, what you are saying is that when you are over-weight and don't body build your muscle mass is going to be the same when you lose the weight and become lean. Body-builders muscles decrease in size if they are not constantly working them. Catabolism of muscle is not the same as a decrease in muscle size. If you lose muscle you can't get it back again??

This is a comment you may find disturbing:
You could fast for as much as 382 days on water alone. People on the study were obese, and lost a lot of weight. Kimmer said if she could do it all again, she would lose her weight by water fasting 150 pounds off. The study also said for the first 10-14 days your body will feed off of the lean muscle in your body and then start hitting stored fat after that.
My comment:
How much muscle mass would you lose in 10-14 days?

[LC_Dave]

Yes,

it's that kind of 'mental focus' we have issues with.

It's funny all the blog posts that Jimmy Moore is doing about the success of these gals, is great (don't get me wrong I like reading them), but it kinda says - the end justifys the means.

A question for you guys:- Are they actually healthier now, than when they were obese?

Will that health remain?

[Sherrie]

Don't get me wrong I am in no position to judge her as a person and am really trying hard to not come accross that way. From her posts on the low carb friend board she certainly appears to be nice and very helpful to others.

I just don't agree with the diet itself and alot of her advice. To me and how I understand things it seems very wrong and dangerous.

Success stories are great and I wish them all the best but I want to know how many success stories and how many un successful stories she has, how many success stories are still success stories 5 years from now. Not only that how successful are these stories? They only alude to fast weight loss, thats not enough for me, you can't measure success by just a number and a calendar.

This whole muscle thing, only 2 weeks and then no loss ever? I have trouble with that Sue. If true does this muscle preservation last indefinately? How much muscle is lost before preservation begins? Where does starvation mode come in? What does this all mean hormonally? It seems too simplistic to me.

The fact is the more muscle you have the more calories you expend so why would you want to risk that? sounds awfully counter productive to me.

If you lose muscle you can get it back as far as I know. I have read many anecdotal experiences by people regarding muscle memory. But I don't know if that is applying to the same type of muscle that she is reffering too, I assume it is.

Regarding the ends justifying the means, success stories aside when you have a popular influential blog you need to consider exactly what your influencing ifykwim?
That said Dave, I assume he is paid to publish those success stories, aka advertising but I could be wrong :)

[LC_Dave]

ifykwim?

Oh, if you know what I mean!! For a second there had to think.

Exactly my delimma with that blog.

If I took any stance one way or the other, I would get a lot of negative responses depending on the low carb politics.

Gah - so stressful! Blog is closed for now!

[LC_Dave]

JImmy's posts of the success stories remind me of my time at Weight Wathcers and all teh success stories posted in teh magazine.

All they are, are Marketing stories (Talking WW here). They dd not show the reality that I experienced as an employee for WW. I saw the long term struggles, and the absolutely huge women bringing out their 'Lifetime Member' discount cards, to restart.

If you don't know lifetime membership in WW is all about, well, it's members who have followed the plan, reached their goal weight, then done the maintenance program for 6 weeks and kept it off for that six weeks. They are then a lifetime member. If they are more than 1 kilo over goal weight in future they have to pay meeting fees again (but LTM gets a discount).

For the 18 months solid I worked there, one lady got to goal. But she lost 10 kilos, and was already a LTM from years ago.

[DOINGIT]

WW really p me off. All they are about is $$$ - I don't know how much real nutrition they teach the staff; minimal I would guess.
Most of their lectures are 'baby talk gibbily gook' and the so called leaders juts read inane comments and questions. The only good thing is that the weekly payment and weigh some how help to make one accountable.
In the end you just get soo peeedddd offf with the hard sell of their own products (which are all crap in nutritional values) and you don't go back.
LC is definately easier and more enjoyable than eating 12 rice crackers for one point!!!

[Snez]

Jimmy has posted another article on kimkins - this time about low carb friends site banning anyone who promotes kimkins:
http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2007/01/low-carb-friends-nazis-rule-with-iron.html

[Sherrie]

Yeah I have a similar dilema, he has lots of good value, no doubt about that and like everyone hes just trying to make a living like everyone else. But yeah some things put me off a little some times, when I see the kimkins stuff I just look at it in the perspective of advertising and skip it. Of course I guess the problem lies with others that don't realise, especially newcomers to his blog who look at it as him reccomending/endorsing it.

Anyway that aside do you know what I like the least about these stories? They all portray glamour, every single girl I recall seeing is always photogenic and made up glamorous and heck maybe photoshop'd (is that a word lol). Whilst its always nice and all to have photos like that of yourself to show off, it kind of comes off to me as false and superficial.

I mean you don't lose 70kgs in 3 months (or whatever they state) and automatically look glamorous but thats the message they portray!

[Sherrie]

I kinda read that as advertising too, to be honest.

They aren't the only ones that are a bit heavy on the banning bottun, look at active low carber or even empower used to be like that at one time.

[KatieP]

I'm a bit behind the thread but I wanted to agree, as a LTM card carrying WW, with Dave and Bron's comments. Although I didn't yo-yo back to starting weight I did feel like chewing my arm off all the time. I feel really sorry for all those people who don't maintain, and there is a hell of a lot of them if meetings and the forum is anything to go by. It is about money - after you aren't paying anymore they don't care what happens to you.

As an interesting aside, they approached me to appear in their magazine. I eventually declined because I didn't want to endorse their program but it was a damn enticing offer to be treated like a star and pampered for a day. Especially us "fat" girls [I suspect I will always think I'm fat] who never think we could be a model for anything!!

What annoyed me the most after I started exploring LC was that it is one point for an apple [70cal] but 1.5 for an egg [70cal]. So if you were to eat normal fat [not even high fat] you would end up on too few calories a day. Not fair that healthy food is discriminated against!!

I still think LOSING weight is the easy part, almost anyone can do it for a while, but the challenge is continuing a long weight loss journey and then keeping it off forever.

Oops, now I've just depressed myself :)

[Sherrie]

Don't be depressed you can do it, we all can! :)

[Snez]

I've got a question about someone on the kimkins diet that lost 17 pounds (7.7kg) but their clothes are not looser at all. You would think their clothes would be looser with that loss?

[KatieP]

Who knows why the scales say what they say? Could they have lost only muscle? Could the stars be in some freakly alignment, could they be simply dehydrated and not lost any fat, could they have washed their clothes in hot water and they shrunk?

Although they number on the scales rules my life, I do like to think that it doesn't tell the full story. The clothes I wore when I was 57kg still fit me at 61kg. If common thinking is to believed, I should be a size bigger. Muscle does weigh more than fat and takes up less space. So conversely, if your body is being fueled by muscle [which could happen if you are eating low carb, low cal and low fat because there is nothing else for fuel] a loss on the scales might not result in a size change.

Sounds like another reason not to do such an extreme diet - YUK!

[Moonie]

If they aren't loose on her/him after dropping that much weight, they must have been overly tight to start with!!!!

[Sherrie]

Surely if it was fat they would be as thats a lot of sticks of butter!

Athough I guess its all in proportion if that person is really big.

[DOINGIT]

every 5 kg is supposed to be a dress size lost!

[LC_Dave]

If their clothes are no looser,

then it's not fat they are losing.

[Snez]

If their clothes are no looser,

then it's not fat they are losing.

That's what I think too.

[BamaGal]

I'm a card carrying LTM of WW and have been for over 20yrs---but it took bypass surgery to get my weight loss started---the LC did the rest

Kimkins---I do not agree with----you can not do low fat and low carb at the same time---it's nice that some are losing quickly---but the maintance is the killing part--

asfor Jimmy promoting Kimkins---yeah it's money---but it is contradicting too--for he is the first to tell you how important fat is----

Dave--I sure miss your blog....

I see this all the time with peole who had WLS---sure they lose weight---but keeping it off long term------few never do---simply because they never learned to change the way they eat---that is something I strive to do---and it is a daily battle---even if my stomach is the size of an egg---you can still regain your weight if you fill it with junk----

[Sherrie]

BG thats it, it really gets my goat up and the more I see it promoted the more my blood boils lol

Hey Maybe there are some that can't tolerate much fat and maybe some people have stuffed their metabolism to oblivion and have no choice but they are not targetting those people, Jimmy is not targetting those people...

They are targetting new people, people that havn't even given Atkins a good shot, people whos metabolisms are most likely fine but now thanks too Kimkins and name your protein shake diet (aka tony ferguson, optifast etc) these people are entering the downward spiral of yoyoing and starvation diets. You know, the kimkins mob even encourage water fasting?

It really grates me and I have a rant planned for my blog on this soon.

[BamaGal]

Sherrie rants too---so go ahead---
and what's up with the water fasting---have they never heard of water intoxicity---I've cared for patients with it---most were trying to flush out drugs prior to a drug screen---one even died----and Kim thinks this is healthy---sorry---keep that little bit of advice to yourself---

[Sherrie]

Yep they do it for long time periods too (basically as long as they can handle), shes done it for over a month I think, I can't remember the exact amount of days but I know I posted it in this thread somewhere.

I just think they encourage some very bad and unhealthy stuff bordering on outright dangerous.

[BamaGal]

shoot if they promote all that stuff---they shoulfd have stuck with phen phen or some other type of drug---at least they could blame it on the drug when things go sour---and they will---but how they gona blame it on their own stupidity

[Sherrie]

I was just browsing another forum and they had a kimkins thread. Anyway someone posted the details for the bootcamp from the kimkins site. Heres a couple requirements:

The differences between Boot Camp vs. Kimkins or KE are protein limits and required daily cardio.
Calories are extremely low. (500'ish)

Cardio is 30mins a day of strenous cardio to the best of your ability and if able 60mins :eek: about 80gish protein a day, almost no fat.

:eek:

Surely that has to be potentially dangerous for anybody?

[KatieP]

Not my comments but worth thinking about

When you don't drink enough water -- often the body retains water. It attempts to maintain homeostasis by counteracting the stresses we put on it.

When we weight train -- we actually break down muscle tissue. And the body responds by building new muscle. It attempts to maintain homeostasis by doing the reverse of the stimulus we placed on it.

When a male takes supplemental testosterone -- the body shuts down it's own production in a bid to maintain homeostasis.

When you undereat -- the body slows metabolism in a bid to maintain your weight.

When you overeat slightly -- the body increases metabolism slightly in a bid to maintain your weight.

When we immunize children against disease -- we actually inject them with a small dose of that disease. The immune system recognizes the vaccine as foreign, destroys it, and 'remembers' it. When the virulent version of an agent comes along, the immune system is thus prepared to respond. In order to prepare the body to defend against a disease - we expose it to that disease - and it responds by doing the opposite.

In almost every situation I can think of, the body tries to maintain homeostasis (the maintenance of the internal environment to maintain a stable, constant condition) by "doing the opposite" of the stimulus.

Now we know that while you are doing it -- aerobic exercise burns fat. Maybe that same body responds the same as it does to every other stimulus -- by doing the reverse ?

I don't know. Anaerobic training burns glycogen primarily -- and in every head to head comparison to 'fat burning' aerobic exercise it causes a bigger loss of fat. Burning glycogen results in a larger amount of fat lost than burning fat directly.

Why do we still recommend the aerobic state for "fat burning" when a completely different approach always works better?

From Alwyn Cosgrove's blog (http://www.alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/)

[Sherrie]

heh a post regarding some of her success stories on her site:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=6702395&postcount=11

[Snez]

That was very interesting Sherrie. Must have a look on the site and see if those success pics she mentioned are gone.

[Sherrie]

If you go to that thread theres more follow up posts on the subject that are interesting too, theres also a thread about it linked there which I havn't checked out.

[Snez]

There was a post about dry skin and hair loss on the Kimkins site. I think because the diet is low fat, low cal and low carb is the reason. Biotin deficiency causes hair loss and vitamin A deficiency causes dry skin.

[Sherrie]

I have a problem with dry skin myself atm though I'm having lots of fat (butter).

[Snez]

Your dry skin could be an allergy or something.
The hair loss is definitely a nutrition deficiency or hormonal.

[Sherrie]

Has anyone noticed that these success stories all appear to have very low muscle tone in their after pics? I was just looking at a new one posted on Jimmy's blog and again arms are like toothpicks.

[Snez]

Yes, that's what freaks me out about doing the full on kimkins diet - I don't want to sacrifice my muscle mass just to be slim.

[LC_Dave]

Any muscle mass lost can be rebuilt.

[Sherrie]

So can fat and you need a calorie surplus to rebuild muscle!

[MandalayVA]

It's funny how my question about Kimkins hasn't really been addressed anywhere--if she did indeed lose all that weight in that short a period of time, she should have loose skin hanging off her everywhere. Where is it? Did she have surgery to remove it? My dad was sick a few years ago and lost about thirty pounds in two weeks (and he wasn't fat to begin with) and he had major loose skin problems. That's why I think Kimkins is BS--yet another quick fix without the lifestyle changes needed to maintain.

[Sherrie]

Also all her past stories that come from the horses mouth, show that it doesn't work as shes been doing this since she was something like 18 years old.

[Snez]

She wrote that she had a tummy tuck and I think a boob lift.

[MandalayVA]

Okay, so starving yourself and surgery is obviously the way to go! And she charges thirty bucks for the privilege of telling you that! Oh, I must sign up right now!

/snark

[LC_Dave]

Okay I must confess that I am a member of her site.

Even though I have not been able to successfully do her plan.

My thoughts on charging to be a member, it's a one off fee. It supports the running of the technology. It helps to keep it a private community.

The details of her plan are available on the net.

I guess those parts aren't all bad.

For me, I just can't starve myself, I need the animal fats. :(

[Snez]

I can't do low-fat either.

[Snez]

Has anyone seen the new pic of Kimkin on her new site?
I'll attach the new pic (red dress) with her before and another pic that was her after pic on the old site.

[Moonie]

the one in the red dress looks like one of those glamour shots...doesn't look like her at all.

[DOINGIT]

now I could be a bitch...... could be ....could be
but I will shut up ..... yes definately I will shut up! :)

[Snez]

Bron - be a bitch!!

Do you think the pic of her seated and in the red dress are of the same person? She looks so different! Moonie is not convinced.

[DOINGIT]

One is a blow up doll!!

[Sherrie]

Doesn't look like she had ever been obese, such youthfully plump skin and doesn't look like shes in her 40s. Would love to know her secret!

[Snez]

Oh yes, wouldn't we all!

[Essie]

Doesn't look like the same person to me.

If it is, she's certainly had some work, just look closely at her eyes. Although she is a hell of a lot skinnier in the red dress, but could be photoshopped. Ooohhh bitch, bitch, bitch ....

[Sherrie]

I am pretty sure I read her mention she did get some things done for loose skin etc...

[LC_Dave]

I also found it incredible how different her pisture looks.

Maybe it's the angles? The new one is her leaning forward.

I don't know, to me it looks like two different people.

[Sherrie]

I was reading this page, THE PHYSIOLOGY OF WEIGHT CHANGE (http://www.obesity-online.com/ifso/lecture_Scopinaro.htm) that had been sitting in my tabs for god knows how long and came to this section which I thought was interesting and related to this thread. We hear about it all the time but its good to see it laid out like this. Not sure about the comment about it not applying to men or maybe thats related more to the regaining of muscle lost, maybe most men regain it better due to hormones and thats why he says that?

PHYSIOLOGICAL PHENOMENA OPPOSING WEIGHT REDUCTION

As we saw, if the energy intake is permanently reduced, body weight also reduces until it produces en energy expenditure equal to the intake, and the size of the reduction is inversely proportional to the consumption of the weight loss, which in turn depends on its composition that is determined by the starting weight. As already mentioned, a drastic diet, either in absolute terms (less than 1,200 Cal/day) or in relative (more than 500 Calories less than the starting TEE), causes the loss of a weight containing a percentage of lean body mass greater than what would be physiological for that definite starting weight. This phenomenon, which was proved in fertile women, while the clinical experience and the results of our studies suggest that it does not occur in postmenopausal women or in men, has two types of negative consequences. On one side, starting from the same body weight, since the weight loss consumes more, for a definite cumulative reduction of energy intake less weight is lost, even if in shorter time, than what would be if the weight loss composition was the physiological one. On the other side, with the weight attained being the same, since more lean than due was lost, body weight contains less lean and more fat, and then it consumes less. This means that to maintain any weight after a drastic diet one has to eat less than another person who has lost the same weight with the physiological composition, or a person with equal body weight who never lost weight. But the worst aspect of this phenomenon is that the alteration of body composition that it causes is permanent. In fact, in the case of weight regain after a drastic diet, the composition of the weight regain is the one physiological for the starting weight. Thus, less lean and more fat are regained in comparison with what was lost, and consequently also the maintenance of a weight equal to that prior to the diet entails an energy intake smaller than that before dieting. And, since the alternative is to go back to the previous energy intake stabilizing at a higher weight than that before dieting, it is easily understood how a series of such ups and downs (which is defined as "weight cycling") may lead to a progressive weight gain progressively more difficult to control. Many young women with no genetic predisposition to obesity, misled by mass media and not protected by specialized surveillance, vainly pursue unrealistic beauty ideals and eventually condemn themselves to become obese or to stay on a diet all their life.

Will have to look into it more and see whats out there to back it up.

[LC_Dave]

Yes this is what I've always been lead to believe, and to a certain extent I have experienced this.

[Essie]

Think I will have to have a read over the next few days ... and try to compute ...

[Sherrie]

Yes this is what I've always been lead to believe, and to a certain extent I have experienced this.

Muscle loss or muscle regain?

It is easier for men to lose muscle not only that severe calorie levels severly restrict testosterone which is important for building muscle.

If men do regain muscle easier in that the body composition changes is not permenant like it appears to be for women (according to this article), I wonder how easy that is especially if their testosterone levels are at an all time low?

What if their calories remain low?

Another question is, are all men the same? There are plenty of men who put on weight and muscle in a female pattern (ie thighs and no chest!), how do these men go?

[KatieP]

... eventually condemn themselves to become obese or to stay on a diet all their life.

Yip - that's me. I have seriously lost my way. Eating crap, feeling crap, getting fatter by the second. I am sure it is just PMT talking but I am so over this whole eating/exercise thing.

I skipped my carb up last weekend which might have something to do with it. It seems easier to diet all week when you know you can have whatever you want on the weekend. Instead, I've been having treats all week which may be less than what I would eat on a carb up day but doesn't compute in the same way.

Blah blah ... get over it ... if it was easy everyone would be thin ... yeah I know :)

[LC_Dave]

Muscle loss or muscle regain?

It is easier for men to lose muscle not only that severe calorie levels severly restrict testosterone which is important for building muscle.

If men do regain muscle easier in that the body composition changes is not permenant like it appears to be for women (according to this article), I wonder how easy that is especially if their testosterone levels are at an all time low?

What if their calories remain low?

Another question is, are all men the same? There are plenty of men who put on weight and muscle in a female pattern (ie thighs and no chest!), how do these men go?

Muscle loss.

Part of me becoming supersized was a rebound off a 'successful' run a Weight Watchers.

[LC_Dave]

Jimmy Moore is now on Kimkins.

http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2007/06/with-my-weight-rising-ive-turned-to.html

[Sherrie]

Yeah I saw that and it just makes me more determined. Jimmy says hes going to move on to the boot camp after he does the meat and egg thing, that is only around 500 calories a day!!!

Its all marketing IMO they both benefit from it. Jimmy benefits from all the extra traffic blogging about kimkins brings and kimkins benefits because there are a lot of low carbers who trust Jimmy.

Katie, just keep in mind the sudden hormonal swing you have just been through with going on the pill then stopping, I guarantee that is playing a part so please cut yourself some slack. Also remember when try to go below a bodyfat level your body feels safe at it will throw all sorts in your way like cravings, mood swings and very low calories can exaggerate it. You have been at this so long your body has wised up big time, you need it to think everything is okay.

Have you still been eating low calorie this week? have you been doing IF? Helping or making things worse?

[Moonie]

Think I will have to have a read over the next few days ... and try to compute
I can't compute that article at all LOL, seems to have trouble sinking in...
This phenomenon, which was proved in fertile women, while the clinical experience and the results of our studies suggest that it does not occur in postmenopausal women or in menDoes this mean it is harder for postmenopausal to lose weight by dropping calories????

[Sherrie]

No it means your muscle loss is less likely to be as bad as it is for fertile women. Of course if you have already done all the damage when you were fertile...

[Snez]

Kimkins is getting really big. They have about 300 new personal journals. I'm still not convinced with that new picture of Kimkin.

BTW - the empower site is very quiet at the moment.
I wonder how its affecting sales of empower products.

[Sherrie]

A quicky post about kimkins (http://pinchof.blogspot.com/2007/06/okay-some-kimkins-stuff.html)

Nah empower were already quiet, I have been a member there since december 2002 plus I lurked for a bit and its always been quiet minus a few busier periods, I think quietness comes more from when the atkins rush first died down, its never been the same online in Australia since unless your promoting low carb crash diets like kimkins and tony ferguson, look at both of their forums, both really busy because everyone wants the quick fix.

[Snez]

Good post Sherrie.

[LC_Dave]

I haven't been to empower or even lurked for a long time. I have over 100 posts there. Of Course I started my own forum, and we have A pinch of Helath as well.

I agree with Sherrie, since the Atkins craze went, all interest died out.

The quick fixes are here to stay. Kimkins and Tony Ferguson. Look if people want to choose them, that's okay - but the alternatives aren't being considered either.

Sherrie, I will read your journal post and come back to you! In fact I'll comment on your blog.

Cheers

Dave

[Snez]

Jimmy Moore has posted a menu plan of kimkins:
http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2007/06/one-week-sample-kimkins-diet-menu.html

[Sherrie]

Yeah I've seen it, just there to get more refferals... every person that signs up from his ads earn him $15 US.

[Snez]

Yes, I read that he gets $15 from each referral - I think it was on the low carb friends site - posted by someone called cutie I believe.

[Essie]

8.5kg in one week?!?!

Unfortunately this is what's going to get people in to pay the bucks to join. Now I know he's a big man, but he still must have had plenty of fluid on board for that result. He doesn't talk much about drinking any water, just a beverage at each meal, I wonder what they say about water intake? Funny, lots of the comments talk about 'going off low carb plan' then wondering why the weight came on, as if this is somehow easier to pay money for a miracle rather than just going back onto 'plan'.

Out of interest, I'd like to try his sample menu just for one week, just to see what it would do (weight wise & mood wise) for someone with 13kg to loose. Would only be an experiment though, could not keep to that!!! Probably have no friends after that week. Anyway, I've just bought everthing I need for cheesecake and mock potato bake - mmmmmm:D

[Sherrie]

Do the sample menu but have it with fat.

[Essie]

Adding fat would make it just like Atkins. I'm not really interested in doing it, just pondering ...

[Sherrie]

Not quite as you are still having no dairy.

[LC_Dave]

Couldn't you just eat ATkins way and lower the calories?


Hmmm.


Jimmy did say one good point, that I'm thinking about my own routine:- That it's important to shake things up.


That's been my problem for a while.

[Sherrie]

Yes certainly, thats what I did.

Definately, shaking things up is good both food wise and exercise wise. The reason why is because we adapt and the bigger the survival instinct we have the quicker we adapt. The trick here is to shake things up sensibly, if you just cut everything out (eg do 500 cal kimkins boot camp) and keep it that way over a period of time then you will adapt to that too and then your stuck between a rock and a very, very hard place.

If you find you really need to go bare bones to get things happenning then cycle it, eg low calories for a few days then go back to induction/owl for a while. Change exercise routines, food composition, even refeeds if you're confident enough. The main trick with weight loss is to have a strategy, look after yourself and your body, keep your body guessing, do things in stages not start off with all guns firing and then run out of ammo half way through the fight.

[DOINGIT]

Essie: Anyway, I've just bought everthing I need for cheesecake and mock potato bake - mmmmmm

recipie for the potato bake please :)

[Essie]

Don't worry Sherrie, I'm not going to do it, I'm just wondering how much I would loose, because Jimmy lost so much. My issue is that if I went that low, and lost, then when I had a stall, what would I do? Not much left. My body just loves hanging on to this fat, I'd be scared I'd only be able to eat that much to maintain. I remember when doing W.W. many years ago I was on the lowest of the serves - before points - once I labouriously got to goal, I increased one serve in each food group and put on weight straight away, so that was supposed to be my maintenence level. Needless to say it never stayed off for long. I've never really kept up with his blog, only read it when it's been linked to hear. Would love to see when his loss slows down and if the weight stays off. Anyway, it's a blog, and we're all in cyberspace, so how do we know it's true?

[Essie]

recipie for the potato bake please :)

It's in the recipe section and I'm about to try to find it again to make for dinner.

[Essie]

Ooops this just doesn't look right sitting in the Kimkins thread ...

Haven't made it before, so just about to give it a go ...

Mock Potato Bake

2 1/2 cups cooked cauliflower, cut into small pieces

1 cup low fat sour cream

3/4 cup shredded cheddar cheese

1/2 brown onion, diced

3-6 slices bacon

Preheat oven to 180C.

While cauliflower is cooking, cook bacon and onion in pan until soft.

Mix sour cream, half of onion/bacon mixture and half of cheese in a bowl.

Stir in cauliflower.

Place in medium baking dish and spead top with remaining bacon/onion and cheese.

Bake for 20 minutes.
__________________

[Sherrie]

That was SLDs recipe the only change I would make is to use the full fat stuff :)

I bought one of those cheap food mags when doing the grocery shopping yesterday, there were a few low carb recipes, mostly cauli that I can't test right now but I could post them for you guys to test for me, also got another cauli bake recipe with gruyere cheese I had been dying to try but was interrupted with this failsafe diet, maybe you guys could make it for me.

[Essie]

Yep, did that. Just found out I didn't have sour cream, so used ricotta & cream, it's now in the oven... taste test soon.

[Sherrie]

Have a look at how kimkins is maintaining: fitday (http://www.fitday.com/webfit/publicjournals.html?Owner=Kimmer&Year=2007&Month=3&Day=5)

[Sherrie]

Oh and heres the kimkins success story that was published in people magazine on the low carb friends forum:

I followed Kimmers plan for awhile. I lost about 35 of the "last" pounds following it. My dear husband did tell me one day "I am tired of watching you starve yourself. You can't live like this forever!"
I admit that I did mention Kimmer in the interview for People Magazine. My intention was to offer it as a hope for people who are searching for plans which work for them.
Unfortunately, there are those who started posting and publishing that I was a "Kimkins success story". At that point, I pretty much have backed off on posting much of anything, anywhere.
I think Kimkins is a great thing and that it is helping a LOT of people to reach their goals. However, I worked a GOOD MANY YEARS at losing the weight, and very little of it had to do with Kimkins.
After all, what is Kimkins? I am sorry if I make a million people really REALLY upset or angry with me.....................but honest to goodness, in my heart I believe it is simply a modified version of ATKINS! What was Atkins? A modified version of "Banting". I have grown so disillusioned with the scads of "modified versions" of low carb. Don't get me wrong....Dr. Atkins is my hero and if I could thank him personally, I would be right there doing it! BUT, people are making profit from modifying his plan and it irks me!
I believe that the best plan is what works for each individual.
I have spent the last six months "floundering" with low carb. I maintained at 116 pounds for a very long time, and I have never deviated from my low carb way of eating, but the pounds creep ever so slowly back as I just helplessly watch it happen. I will not forsake this way of eating, because it is the healthiest thing on earth. My heart breaks, however, as the pounds creep back, following our move to a new environment. I can not, however, return to starving myself to death**aka Kimkins** (which by the way I have in desperation tried, but to no avail). I have come to a point where I can not accept, personally, the concept of starving yourself. I saw earlier where someone mentioned "Trashing the thyroid". Yep, I believe it! Starving yourself is NOT the answer! Flame if need be, but, this is just my opinion.
I have recently stopped ingesting Splenda and diet soda. Maybe I can't be "skinny" again, but i can be as healthy as possible.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=8585141#post8585141

[Essie]

Have a look at how kimkins is maintaining: fitday (http://www.fitday.com/webfit/publicjournals.html?Owner=Kimmer&Year=2007&Month=3&Day=5)

Yes, that would be my concern, I looked at a few different dates and I believe it's always below 800 calories.

[Snez]

Regarding the kimkins diet plan that was posted, a comment was made that it sounds similar to the Power 90X nutrition guidelines which is very low carb and high protein and when you add resistance training you can gain muscle while losing fat. Has anyone tried Power 90X?

[Sherrie]

So you can gain muscle and lose fat on 500 calories a day and doing resistance training? That I would like to see! :)

[LC_Dave]

Okay guys, I've started Kimkins!!!

Am I banned? (Oh wait this is not AC's forum! :p )

What I am doing:- The Kimmer Experiment (KE)

No Alcohol,
No veggies or fruit
No Cheese
No carbs
All the lean protein you want.

I started on Saturday, it's day three for me. I think I've lost about 3 kilos.

I'm kinda being a rebel, cause I'm not counting my calories!! LOL

So far it's not so bad, it's a bit like my last trip into zero carb diet, without the fat.

I do get some fats in the meats. I can't eat fatless protein - bleah!

When I get to goal, I will revert to Atkins Maintenance, with a higher animal fat intake.

[jojoamethyst]

what about other diary products? Sounds all a bit restricitive with no vegies. I think a little brocolli wouldnt hurt lOL - my wonder food :)

[LC_Dave]

what about other diary products?

Nope, no books allowed, and no internet blogs either.
Don't think they would taste good anyhow!


:p :p :p


Yeah it's restrictive, that's cool.

Oh and no other Dairy either.

[Sherrie]

Shutting my eyes tight, putting fingers in ears and humming loudly! :p

[jojoamethyst]

Nope, no books allowed, and no internet blogs either.
Don't think they would taste good anyhow!


:p :p :p


Yeah it's restrictive, that's cool.

Oh and no other Dairy either.

LOL - dairy products!! bloody typos

[LC_Dave]

Dave's Foray into Kimkins has come to a crashing holt today, day 4.

I've had enough.


Back to Atkins for me!!

[Sherrie]

Dave what happenned?

You always seem to crash and burn after a few days on m/e.

[LC_Dave]

Dave what happenned?

You always seem to crash and burn after a few days on m/e.

Yeah I don't think I can hack zero carb.

Seriously! I keep forgetting this!

I get worked up and jump into it, but severly crash!!


GAH!

[jojoamethyst]

surely you would get over the shock of it all though - detox

seriously though - not sure i could do it either
well done on 4 days!

[LC_Dave]

For a really B_tchy thread about kimkins, check out active lowcarber today.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=338380&page=1&pp=15

OUCH!


Oh - Thanks Jo.

I'm not going to say the diet is bad, cause I couldn't do it - just me personally I couldn't last.

[Sherrie]

Dave I am a bit suprised by your crashing after 4 days all the time as usually things get easier by the fourth day with ketosis kicking in and this morning you seemed so positive and not hungry. All I can say is your body is trying to tell you something, just need to figure out what that something is!

[LC_Dave]

Dave I am a bit suprised by your crashing after 4 days all the time as usually things get easier by the fourth day with ketosis kicking in and this morning you seemed so positive and not hungry. All I can say is your body is trying to tell you something, just need to figure out what that something is!


Yeah I know! Good point!

I think it's the carbs. My body likes to have a minimal level of carbs travelling around, een if it's 20 grams of lettuce.

My body loves dietary fat.

I wonder if my body needs exercise?

[Sherrie]

Hehe I dunno I know that thread is well earned, kimmer is certainly VERY, VERY questionable. Have you researched her history on LCF where she said about her past? If what she has been saying is true, she has been yoyoing and crash dieting for 30 odd years, I have read HER say that she first did stillmans when she was 16 years old even though she didn't have a weight problem then I have also read her mention water fasting which I thought started when she was around 20 but I read yesterday that she was 18. Her first fast went for 45 days!!! And she has been doing this (stillmans and fasting) ever since and she now has a thyroid problem.

This is not a person who I would be wanting to follow the advice of. She might glorify kimkins as a modified version of atkins but really its just the same as what she has been doing since she was 16.

But even more so, is if I was a high profile person whom lots of obese people look up to and trust of my own choosing and I was sincere then I sure as heck would be a lot more responsible about where I intentionaly led them too.... this applied to both kimmer and someone else we all know :)

[Sherrie]

Apparently some people don't make the conversions to glucose from other sources very well, I wonder if your one of them (just speculating). What exactly were you eating when you lost all that weight on low carb? do you remember?

[LC_Dave]

I was basically eating eggs and bacon for breaky,

meat and salad for lunch.

meat and salad for dinner.

No bars or extras. That's an issue!


[I think I missed cheese the most on kimkins! lol]

[Essie]

For a really B_tchy thread about kimkins, check out active lowcarber today.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=338380&page=1&pp=15

OUCH!


Just had a read, very interesting ....

[Essie]

Dave's Foray into Kimkins has come to a crashing holt today, day 4.

I've had enough.


Back to Atkins for me!!

Does that mean I can send you down some mango flavoured cheesecake???:D

[Sherrie]

All cheesecake to me!!!

[KatieP]

I bet you wouldn't expect me to say this but ...
I think low calorie, low fat, zero carb diets are EVIL!!
Too little is just as bad [if not worse] than too much. It sets you up for bingeing, deprivation and starvation brain.
If you don't eat enough calories, your body stores everything you eat, lowers metabolism and goes into hibernation.
If you don't eat enough fat, your body holds on to the fat you have and burns protein [muscle] instead because there is nothing else [if you don't eat carbs].
I'm a FAT burner, I eat only vege carbs, full fat meat/chicken/fish, hard, soft and cottage cheese and try to hit 1500 calories a day.
And I personally think exercise is the only reason I have such a different shape to the pear shape I've had my whole life [I was the only kid with a waist and hips!]
This is a particularly interesting article by John Berardi (http://http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/new_view.htm) that had made me re-think the whole calorie thing. Take note of the three case studies ... eating more [a LOT more] made them lose fat and maintain/gain muscle.
Anyway -- I'm with Sherrie and think the whole Kimkins diet is dangerous. But of course, as they say in the classics -- just my 2 cents ;)

[Moonie]

thanks for that link Essie made some interesting if comical reading..Loved the one that said she caught a bug and lost a lot of weight but wouldn't charge $60 for a diarrhoea diet. LOL!!

[LC_Dave]

Does that mean I can send you down some mango flavoured cheesecake???:D

OMG!

A woman that makes cheesecake!!!!!!

I'm in love!!! (Don't tell my non-cooking fiancee)

Now my dreams will be filled with mango flavoured cheesecake!!

[LC_Dave]

thanks for that link Essie made some interesting if comical reading..Loved the one that said she caught a bug and lost a lot of weight but wouldn't charge $60 for a diarrhoea diet. LOL!!

It was my link. *sniff*

Check the thread here.

*weep*


Damn - emotional today is I!

[LC_Dave]

I bet you wouldn't expect me to say this but ...
I think low calorie, low fat, zero carb diets are EVIL!!
Too little is just as bad [if not worse] than too much. It sets you up for bingeing, deprivation and starvation brain.
If you don't eat enough calories, your body stores everything you eat, lowers metabolism and goes into hibernation.
If you don't eat enough fat, your body holds on to the fat you have and burns protein [muscle] instead because there is nothing else [if you don't eat carbs].
I'm a FAT burner, I eat only vege carbs, full fat meat/chicken/fish, hard, soft and cottage cheese and try to hit 1500 calories a day.
And I personally think exercise is the only reason I have such a different shape to the pear shape I've had my whole life [I was the only kid with a waist and hips!]
This is a particularly interesting article by John Berardi (http://http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/new_view.htm) that had made me re-think the whole calorie thing. Take note of the three case studies ... eating more [a LOT more] made them lose fat and maintain/gain muscle.
Anyway -- I'm with Sherrie and think the whole Kimkins diet is dangerous. But of course, as they say in the classics -- just my 2 cents ;)


Awesome!

Along the lines of what I've always felt!

[Sherrie]

Dave I have been reading up on other peoples experiences on the various kimkins plans and it seems a lot have this same problem, one lady was saying it put her into such a big binge it took two months to stop, so don't feel bad you havn't failed or anything like that!

[Moonie]

It was my link. *sniff* says LC Dave

Check the thread here.

*weep*


Damn - emotional today is I!
OOps my mistake Sorry !! there there it's ok!!!

[Snez]

pro-kimkins blog:
http://lovinglowcarblife.blogspot.com/2007/06/kimkins-rant.html

[Sherrie]

Yeah I read that, shes not glorifying it or denying anything unlike someone else ;)

My biggest problem is with the way its being potrayed by others, glorifying this whole quick fix thing, I mean isn't this what gets a lot of overweight/obese people in trouble?

Then lying about calorie limits on the various plans and even being extremly rude to people that point it out nicely. Thats what I have a problem with. What is so wrong with encouraging people to make an informed decision?

The come back... I'm doing meat and egg, there is no calorie limit... woopee doo good for you but that is not the point is it.
The point is extremly low calorie is very encouraged, from what I heard there are lots of people there even on 200-300 calories because they are not hungry and told so little calories is fine, there are people being encourage to water fast for days, weeks, as long as you can. There's this whole quick fix mentality, people unhappy because they only lost 8 pounds in a week. And almost all are doing it without medical supervision OMG that is not responsible, none of it is responsible. Its insane, why risk knowingly sending people down that path, telling them bootcamp is over 1200 calories when it is only half that at most. Jimmy denies that bootcamp is not around 500 calories... add it up because it clearly is!

[Snez]

Another point of view on kimkins:
http://waistedinthewasteland.blogspot.com/2007/06/kimkins-revisited.html

People you think wouldn't go near it are swarming. The incentive of quick weight loss is a big draw card.

[Sherrie]

Dr Barry Groves made a good point to me regarding the Kimkins diet. He said that Steffanson found almost a century ago that on what he called a rabbit diet (rabbit is a fatless animal) that people got sick within a few days and can die within a few weeks.

[Essie]

OMG!

A woman that makes cheesecake!!!!!!

I'm in love!!! (Don't tell my non-cooking fiancee)

Now my dreams will be filled with mango flavoured cheesecake!!

Sorry Dave, just about to have another piece. Snicker, snicker ...

[LC_Dave]

Sorry Dave, just about to have another piece. Snicker, snicker ...


That's not nice! LOL

[Snez]

Carol at Kudos For Low Carb posted an interesting blog on muscle loss and going too low in calories. (Kimkins dieters go as low as 500 calories for a month to months - could their huge weight loss include lots of muscle loss??).
http://kudosforlowcarb.blogspot.com/2007/06/5-bad-habits-that-could-ruin-your.html

[Sherrie]

I certainly think it can be one of the dangers amongst other things!

Some signs may be to look at their physique when they reach goal as well as how many calories they are maintaining on!

[LC_Dave]

It makes no sense why they ar emaintaining on so low calorie.

If you are eating very low carb. 20 and even 30 grams of carbs, a certain amount of protein for your height etc. YOu can eat as much fat calories as satisfies you, because in the absence of insluin their is no mechanism to store dietary fat as body fat.

NO REASON TO MAINTAIN ON SO LOW CALORIE!

[Sherrie]

I have yet to see a kimkins person maintaining on anything half decent!

[Snez]

You can't debate the issue of Kimkins with some people as you are seen as just someone that is jealous.

[Sherrie]

Well they can take a hike with their jealousy comments, I have no reason to be jealous of someones weight loss *shrug*

I'm definately not finished with this kimkins debate :)

[Snez]

What kimkins has done for you:
http://www.printfection.com/kimkins

[Essie]

The larger the t-shirt the more she stings you. :rolleyes:

[LC_Dave]

Why would you want a t-shirt?

Maybe it's a girl thing???

No way a man would where a t-shirt with the latest diet he in on, on it!!

[Sherrie]

Wouldn't catch me dead with one LOL

[Sherrie]

I have been hearing stories over time of how heavily moderated the kimkins forum is and how anything negative on that forum is simply deleted. Well I just read this on the low carber forum about an old kimkins forum member called Cutie: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=337036&page=7&pp=15

[Snez]

Interesting reading Sherrie. So over at kimkins the PMs get read by kimmer, ending with a few people being kicked out of the site but having their money refunded. The two kicked off mentioned in the post was cutie/amy and kiki.

I've also read that there is a kimkin cruise coming up next year and there is talk that kimmer may turn up for the cruise which would be interesting to see if it really happens.

[Sherrie]

Hey she's got plenty of time to starve herself and lose some weight for the cruise ;)

[Snez]

Yes, she's got heaps of time! Lots of controversy going on. Jimmy Moore is going to interview her over the phone - she doesn't like going out in public apparently gets panic attacks!!

Also, Regina Wilshire made a good comment on Jimmy's blog that if he was eating sugar-free pickles, mayo in salad, low carb bread and wraps, chocolate etc then he clearly isn't doing kimkins so why keep saying that he is!! Touche!!

[Sherrie]

Its probably from all the starving oneself. Would put me on edge too LOL

His interview will be chocos full of propaganda anyway, hes got too much to lose for it not to be. I reckon her starvation diet is pretty much his main income!

[Sherrie]

Oh you want to see something funny, Keepiing in mind Jimmy admits never meeting or seeing her in person, in Jimmy's interview of Kimmer last October on his blog in question 5, hes says this:

5. By the way, you look absolutely fantastic today and you seem to be so much happier now as well. How has your life changed for the better since your amazing weight loss success?

[Sherrie]

Hey I found a menu posted by Kimkins in April last year on what she maintains on. Shes claiming shes eating between 1200 - 1400 but it doesn't look like it to me!

I tend to eat pretty much the same stuff every day. Even when we go out to eat I'll be looking for a non-sauce protein, side veggie (no sauce) and a large salad.

Breakfast: None or 1 egg omelette w/ veggies & ham
Snack: Yogurt (100 cal Dannon) and/or fruit
Lunch: Green salad w/ grilled chicken (or something similar)
Snack: Fruit (banana, pear, grapes or ?)
Dinner: Lean protein, 2-3 veggies (occasional potato or corn)

Once in a while a small dessert, but sweets are a problem area for me so I tend to not keep them in the house. Treats I bake for my foster sons are in a size that has no leftovers, LOL!

I don't use Fitday for myself very often, but when I do check I'm running around 1200-1400 calories, 70-100 carbs. This seems right for 118 lbs and a non-exerciser.

http://lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=7063359&postcount=154

[DOINGIT]

BULL SDFAASDFASDF

[Sherrie]

I get the impression from this post (http://lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=8869221&postcount=9) that this girl who is one of Kimkins success stories is maintaining on 1000 cals.

[Snez]

Yeh she is I think.

[jojoamethyst]

what is the big deal with this?

each to their own surely?

[Snez]

what is the big deal with this?

each to their own surely?

The big deal is that its unhealthy. If you lose tonnes of weight on 500-600 calories you are most probably losing a lot of muscle and you are probably depleting your vitamin and mineral stores in your body especially since its also low fat. We all want to lose weight but health should come first.

[jojoamethyst]

so true - but sort of preaching to the converted on this forum

i understand a few posts to illustrate this but it seems that it is a highly charged topic lately

is there any reason?

[Sherrie]

Jojo the Kimkins forum has grown something like 20,000 members in a month. You have Jimmy Moore promoting the heck out of it. Some people are making an awful lot of money out of this which will most likely cause nothing but problems for most of the people who have been sucked in.

[DOINGIT]

i understand a few posts to illustrate this but it seems that it is a highly charged topic lately



Not only on here but other forums are running hot with it as well. I think mostly it is because ppl are concerned that there are some unscrupulous ppl out there making mega bucks from ppl who are clutching at straws to get the magic formulae.

[LC_Dave]

A pinch of health is the tip of the iceburg.

It seems bagging Kimkins is the flavour of the month on these baords.

I hate to say it but the drama and the intrigue, and the low carb celebs involved in the alleged conspiracy .....makes into one big soap opera.

Just sit back and watch it unfold. LOL

[jojoamethyst]

think i will remain ignorant to it as i am not going to get sucked in

mind you losing weight is a novel idea for me:rolleyes:

[Prothvar]

I must have my head in the sand, until very recently I had never even heard of Kimkins

[LC_Dave]

think i will remain ignorant to it as i am not going to get sucked in

mind you losing weight is a novel idea for me:rolleyes:


You don't want to be on that roller coaster ride anyway.

I've been on it since I was 7 years old. I was one of those nasty little lazy fat kids. You know the ones that got fat because of lazyness and overeating. (Umm yeah more like Doctors and their steroids! GAH!)

I can tell you the social bullying, mental torture, fingers of guilt, self esteem destruction, constant discrimination.... well this stuff plays with your head.

You get to a stage where you will do anything and everything to just end it.

So yeah I got suckered and paid my membership fee to Kimkins. Looking back I see how I was exploited, or rather I was in a vulnerable state, and taken advantage of. Hey I own up to it. No one forced me to join up. I just wanted this life as a fat guy to end.

That's why her gimic is so popular. And it's also why so many lowcarbers are peeved at it!

I tried to do it, and I just couldn't starve any more. After years and years of starvation diets.

[Sherrie]

Oh btw, you know how we were discussing Jimmy's motives in regards to promoting Kimkins and announcing he was doing it too and the 25$ we thought he was getting for each person he signed up.

Well turns out that it gets even dirtier, apparently when Jimmy become an affiliate for Kimkins the commision was much higher, rather then 25% he gets $23.98 per referral (40% of $59.95) he makes, and $8.99 per referral made by someone he convinced to become an affiliate (15% of $59.95).

Also it was confirmed that he was pretty instrumental in the first 3000 members they made so I wonder, how many he has signed up out of the almost 30000 members?

Thats a lot of money and considering he lost or left? his job late last year I would gather he would be pretty reliant on this affiliate relationship making him very bias IMO

[Sherrie]

I thought some people might find this a good read:

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be anorexic (http://denver.yourhub.com/Longmont/Blogs/Life/My-Life/Mixed-Bag/Blog~335551.aspx)

[Snez]

That picture of the thin model is obviously doctored isn't it?
I surfed some pro-ana sites and really couldn't believe it. On one site they wrote that since they choose not to eat, anorexia is not a disease but a lifestyle of choice!

[DOINGIT]

since they choose not to eat, anorexia is not a disease but a lifestyle of choice!
or
a life style slide to ulitmate death . Poor things it mus be so hard for them how ever you look at it.

[Sherrie]

Remember we had a girl join here last year who was pro ana, she said low carb made it easier to control, if I remember right.

[Snez]

I saw the post on calories and to a point I agree you have to watch your calories. Its a bit over the top though when you are questioning whether or not the fish oils your doc prescribed for some joint issue has too many calories and you're thinking about abandoning them.

[Sherrie]

Thats nuts!

[Sherrie]

You know Kimmer is now claiming to be maintaining on 1400-1700 calories in her interview with jimmy, I don't think so!!!

Hey I found a menu posted by Kimkins in April last year on what she maintains on. Shes claiming shes eating between 1200 - 1400 but it doesn't look like it to me!



http://lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=7063359&postcount=154

[Sherrie]

I received an email yesterday by someone thanking me, they found either this thread or one of my kimkins post on my blog doing a search for info on kimkins and this steered her away from doing it. Made my day :)

More reason why we have to keep this thread and my blog posts on it up there in the search engines so people can get a balanced view and make an informed decision. What kimmer has done is totally spam a whole bunch of dummy pages so the search engines are totally saturated with pages full of hyped up biased kimkins websites. Not only that she has an affiliate program with lots of affiliates springing up everywhere on the net doing the same thing hoping to make lots of $$$.

Because of this it is really hard for people to find anything unbiased about the diet doing a google search. So if anyone ever gets the opportunity, eg someone on another forum asks about the kimkins diet share the link to this thread and/or the kimkins posts on my blog plus other links showing the bad side of kimkins is good too.

These are the ones on my blog so far:

Okay some Kimkins stuff... (http://pinchof.blogspot.com/2007/06/okay-some-kimkins-stuff.html)

Kimkins and Kimmer (http://pinchof.blogspot.com/2007/07/kimkins-and-kimmer.html)

Is Kimkins okay because its simply low carb? (http://pinchof.blogspot.com/2007/07/is-kimkins-okay-because-its-simply-low.html)

Also if you use digg, bookmark sites or anything like that add them there too. Every bit helps :)

The reason why is google etc love links so the more links the higher it comes up in the search pages.

[Tenacious]

I took some interest in this thread and had a read up of kimkins (only because it seemed like a bit of a "bun-fight" - and controversey is always interest peaking!!!!) and OMG (as my 11yo would put it) that chick is whack!

A 500 cals with 30 min intense cardio a day????????? I'd reckon that just being able to push the "on" button on the tready would be about as much "intense" cardio you could do on 500cal........

[Sherrie]

You know what the funny part of that is... She herself doesn't exercise, never did!

[Sherrie]

Been out all day today, am now trying to catch up on all the kimkins happenings that started last night after I went to bed and I came across this, and thought I'd share as its funny :) no idea where it came from:


“Long, long ago…

In a galaxy far away…

KimVader walks into the room and spies Ham Salad talking quietly with Princess Lettuce. Running quickly across the expansive hall, she whispers in a gutteral wheeze to the Princess, “You must not allow Ham Salad in your presence. He is a rebel and seeks to destroy the Kimpire!”

Princess Lettuce stands for a moment, looking quizzically between the two forces. As she backs away from Ham Salad, in fear of the fat dripping from his creamy visage, Leek Fatwalker soars across the vaulted ceiling and scoops up the Princess in his arms. “Run Ham! Run!” he screams.

Ham Solo flees from the chamber, accompanied by his faithful companion, Chewjerky, and escapes into the Millenium Falcon. Greeted there by Princess Lettuce and Leek Fatwalker, they quickly take their seats and prepare for battle against the Kimpire.

Atkin wan kinobi is waiting for them on Fatouine, to prepare the troupe for battle and arm them with the only weapons known to conquer the evil Epsom Death Ray and Spritzer Beam - the mayo cannon!

Who will win this epic battle? Will the powers of good be restored to the universe or will the Kimpire take over and send all to their doom? “

[DOINGIT]

LOVE IT!!!

[LC_Dave]

*Groan* You are a such a Star Wars Nerd!

You realise that only fans woud know of those references!

(And I'm a bit of a SW fan myself so that's how I know)

[Sherrie]

Check this out: Kimkins is not Atkins (http://www.controlcarb.com/ccn-news.htm)

[LC_Dave]

Check this out: Kimkins is not Atkins (http://www.controlcarb.com/ccn-news.htm)

Great Article Sherrie! THANK YOU!


Research has shown in animal and human studies that when one can no longer maintain a low calorie diet and refeeding begins, weight is regained to an even higher level.

Yep I am one those animals.

[Moonie]

Yep I am one those animals.LOL!!!

[Sherrie]

Forgot to mention th Kimkins petition, please add your autograph! :)

Kimkins petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/kimkins/petition.html)

[Sherrie]

Hey Guys did you sign the petition above?

Please sign! :)

[Sherrie]

Okay you have to read this and then if you havn't done so yet you have to sign the petition I posted above as it is important and what I am about to post is disgusting!!!

This is about a 14 year old girl on the kimkins forum whom is not obese either. She has lost a little over 20 pounds so far and had a fitday with calories going as low 100 and something calories but I think she averaged around 500? Anyway it was leaked on the LCF forum so it went poof (eg private) not long after. Anyway the pressure has been on kimkins regarding this child so everyone has been as careful as they could be now. This girl apparently posted on the kimkins forum how she wanted to up her calories (thanks to our persistence) but she couldn't get it over 500 cals. She said she wanted help to get her calories between 800-1000 cals which is what she thought she needed but as we know that is still way to low...

Anyway people have been real careful on their replies and then today Kimmer replied. This is apparently what she said:

From the kimkins exposed website:

I agree with all the replies above, except about needing more calories simply because of your age. A calorie is a unit of energy, that’s all. If we eat too much energy, it’s stored as fat — whether you’re 14 or 84. If you have excess body fat, you have CALORIES hanging there, again whether you’re 14 or 84.

You can read the rest here: http://kimkinsexposed.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/kimmer-encourages-child-to-continue-on/

This is serious stuff... Please sign the petition!

http://www.petitiononline.com/kimkins/petition.html

[DOINGIT]

OOOOoooo makes one want to throttle someone ie kimmer

[Moonie]

That's criminal!!!!

[Sherrie]

It sure is!

[LC_Dave]

*Speechless*

[Sherrie]

So far in the last couple of weeks I have heard 2 cases of heart trouble with people following kimkins.


Here's the latest one posted on LCF which is allegedly from the Ask Kimmer thread on the kimkins forum:

I was taken to the E.R. Sunday night with symptoms of a heart attack. It turned out that my potassium levels were dangerously low. I haven't been on plan since then and have gained back 12 lbs already. I have to follow up with my doctor tomorrow. I know what she is going to say. My diet will be blamed. What can I say to her that will convince her to let me continue this W.O E. Do you think that my diet could have had anything to do with it? I haven't posted in Fit Day for over a week. I tried to I.M you but didn't know that you were having computer problems. I want to get back on plan but am a little nervous about it. My doctor is a bit old fashioned and doesn't like anything that isn't "balanced". I never have been able to convince her otherwise.

I'm open for suggestions. Help!

Not good, she could have died! :eek:

[Sherrie]

2 of Kimkins paid and most important people to her cause (Becky and Christin) have left kimkins. Christin whom is the one that was her biggest success story and featured in the womens world mag admitted that she lost her periods for 5 months which has now been fixed by her doctor. If that doesn't prove that there is such a thing as starvation mode then I don't know what does!

She has a blog on blogger tittled, my total transformation

This will be a huge blow, has to be. Of course Kimmer shrugs it off and says that all this anti kimkins stuff just brings her extra publicity but from what I've been told that forum is now a ghost town so I don't think so!

Oh and that moderator, Deni that I wrote that letter (http://pinchof.blogspot.com/2007/08/my-reply-to-deni.html) to on my blog has left as well.

Hopefully they are all sincere (I don't about them enough to be sure either way) because I would hate to see another group form by them with the same dangerous advice.

[LC_Dave]

http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2007/09/open-invitation-to-kimkins-refugees.html

Christin admitted her hair started to fall out after four months on Kimkins and she didn't have a period for five months in her farewell post today. She began to wonder what price she was paying with her health by following a weight loss plan like Kimkins for sustained weight loss.

"So while I do agree and whole heartedly support that there is everything to be said for protein sources to be lean, and eating fresh vegetables, there is also something to the fact that God created things like whole grains and fruit for our bodies as well. However, I saw those things as a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. But sacrifice at what cost?"

Notice she talks about grains and fruits, and is still totally Fat phobic.

I would say the reason she lost hair and lost period was a lack of fat in her diet, and thus vitamins and minerals that are fat soluable.

[Sherrie]

Yup still fat phobic, I agree!

[Snez]

What a shock exodus!!

[Essie]

What a shock exodus!!

You can say that again. Apparently KK is saying they succumbed to pressure from all the 'jealous haters' or some such rot!

One of the controversies appears to be the reading of PM's.

Sherrie & Dave, what's the go with that as experienced website
owners? Do different web hosts or what ever they're called allow that? Now I am certainly not accusing you guys of that - I know you both have far too much intregrity for that. But what's the go?

[Sherrie]

Reading PM's?

You don't need the webhosts permission to do that as its your web stuff etc

I used to think you couldn't do it (assuming it would all be in a programming language or encrypted etc) until I realised the databases are in plain english. So as far as I know the way you could do it is to download the database backup which has all the forum stuff in it then open it up.
Now thats not as siimple as it sounds if you have a big database. Ours is around 130mb, firstly databases of that size are hard to backup completely if you don't know what your doing, secondly because its an SQL you need a special program to open it, then it has to be good enough to be able to open a database up of that size. Then to top that off you have to try and find what your searching for. Imagine how much text a 130mb file would have in it!

Personally I'm not the type of person to do something like that because of principles but still that would be one heck of a hassle so I couldn't imagine I'd want to do it anyway.

And Kimmer well she apparently has 37000 members now, that would be a big friggen database!!!

This is why I don't believe that Kimmer is computer illiterate...

And this is why anyone with a forum should not store any of their databases in their public folders even if they are zipped up because other people could come across them including google.

[Snez]

Do you know if it is possible for a banned member to be impersonated on the site, i.e. made to look that they are not banned and even post as them?

[Sherrie]

I'd imagine they could do it simple by changing their password and logging in as them? Oh thats right, that would be another way to read someones PM's and is probably what was going on. They weren't trying to pretend they were still visiting they were probably logged in as them and reading through their PMs!

I have seen a few banned members recall that their password no longer worked...

[luv2bslim]

I know on another site I belong to, if a member is banned, the little spies check new members and their new ip addresses..and ban them again, and again etc etc
they also get to recognise the *style* of the poster..so even if they use a different public computer, they just KNOW if it is the banned person returing under an alias...

[Essie]

All very interesting ...

[LC_Dave]

Sherrie & Dave, what's the go with that as experienced website
owners? Do different web hosts or what ever they're called allow that? Now I am certainly not accusing you guys of that - I know you both have far too much intregrity for that. But what's the go?


I wish I was as clued up as Sherrie about this, but i must confess to being a HImbo about this stuff. MY fiancee MacSnacker is the computer genius, I let her do all computer stuff, and I just sit back and enjoy her fixing stuff!

I guess I've become computer lazy! :D

I have not even bothered to check it out, because to me personally the very idea of reading PMs is a disgusting invasion of people's privacy.

Like Sherrie, I had the site for a while and thought that I couldn't do it, until I learned that they do it over at places like Active No Carber.

My advice to anyone, is to discuss dessenting things via email 'off site'.

Just request the persons email via pm, and then gossip via email. Safer and more private.

[Sherrie]

OMG this is apparently Kimmer: http://www.slamboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/kimmerimage01.JPG

More at www.slamboard.com

I've only just found out so haven't read through and looked through the pictures yet but somehow I can't say I'm surprised...

[Essie]

OMG you beat me to it. Logged on to LCF and saw a million pages since last night, wondered what was up! Wonder if it really is?

[Snez]

I'm not surprised either. She's clamping down on her site. Most negative posts have been deleted. Any further negative posts will be deleted!! I wonder if a lot of the kimkin members will see these pictures!

[Sherrie]

Its definitely her, if you go to http://kimkinsdangers.blogspot.com/ she has a side by side pic comparing them and her old before pic, one of the LCF members who used to defend her actually knows the investigator and recognised where those pics were taken.

What I find the most ironic is she is even heavier and looks to me to be A LOT HEAVIER then her old before pics!!!

[Sherrie]

Oh and those pictures where shes walking back to her car, thats her with her mail and most likely kimkins cheques, oh the irony!!!

[Moonie]

OMG!!!! that is shocking!!!!

p.s sherrie that last link doesn't seem to work...
should it be this
http://kimkinsdangers.blogspot.com/

[LC_Dave]

:eek: OMG!

This woman has more body fat than me!!!

I can't believe I wasted money on this scam!!! :eek: :eek:

[jojoamethyst]

how do we know its her?

[Sherrie]

how do we know its her?

Its definitely her, if you go to http://kimkinsdangers.blogspot.com/ she has a side by side pic comparing them and her old before pic, one of the LCF members who used to defend her actually knows the investigator and recognised where those pics were taken.

What I find the most ironic is she is even heavier and looks to me to be A LOT HEAVIER then her old before pics!!!

Plus in those photos where shes walking back to her car she had just been collecting her mail from allegedly the same place she has her kimkins cheques addressed to. The license plate number of the car is in the name of Heidi Diaz.

Plus she looks to be the same women in her before photos that she posted.

[Sherrie]

Oh and it has apparently been confirmed that she has not had foster children since at least 2000. In June this year she accepted donations for her "foster kids" from members on her site... pretty sure that is on the kimkins dangers blog!

[Snez]

I've been banned from the kimkins site.

[Sherrie]

Were you the one posting links in peoples journals? :)

[Moonie]

I've been banned from the kimkins site.
Why were you banned,do you know?

[Snez]

Were you the one posting links in peoples journals? :)

Yes I was. I logged into the site this morning and saw heaps of "negative" posts deleted. Then I saw a new thank you kimmer post with a few replies praising kimmer - how she's saved their lives. I just couldn't handle it any longer so I thought if I post the link in a few personal journals it might make some people think and if I spread out the links more people will see it before kimmer deletes it. I knew I was going to be banned for being "negative".
Anyway, if anyone is interested, I never did the diet - when I first joined around January I wanted a quick fix but when I saw the diet I knew it was all wrong.

[Moonie]

Do you get a refund???LOL

[Sherrie]

Yes I was. I logged into the site this morning and saw heaps of "negative" posts deleted. Then I saw a new thank you kimmer post with a few replies praising kimmer - how she's saved their lives. I just couldn't handle it any longer so I thought if I post the link in a few personal journals it might make some people think and if I spread out the links more people will see it before kimmer deletes it. I knew I was going to be banned for being "negative".
Anyway, if anyone is interested, I never did the diet - when I first joined around January I wanted a quick fix but when I saw the diet I knew it was all wrong.

Snez I wish you told me :) I had a good idea when I heard just before and that was to post links in the challenge threads because there will be groups subscribed to these threads who will receive an email with the links!!!

[Snez]

I doubt it Moonie.

[Snez]

SuzieQ I wish you told me :) I had a good idea when I heard just before and that was to post links in the challenge threads because there will be groups subscribed to these threads who will receive an email with the links!!!

Oh well. Hopefully there is someone else on the inside that can do that. My friends on the site are probably slamming me?

[LC_Dave]

Peeps are talking bout you over at ALC.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=347519&page=10&pp=15


I still have an active membership (I think)

I was like you, wanted a quick fix, but could never do the diet.

[Essie]

I've been banned from the kimkins site.

I wondered how long it would be before that happened you 'rude' girl :D

I'll fess up, I joined too, :rolleyes: Susie Q knew. She's been giving Kimmer a hard time there lately. I'll try not to be banned so I can get the inside goss.

[Sherrie]

Bah how dare you not tell me LOL

Cool just remember if you see anything damning let me know!

[Essie]

Because I knew what you'd say. I was desperate and feeling like crap, and in a moment of weakness ...

[Sherrie]

Essie, Snez told me before she joined, I never gave her a hard time. I just gave her my opinion, read up on it some more and told her to be careful. :)

You all must think I'm such a meanie. really I am not!!! :)

[Snez]

I didn't tell you Sherrie because I'm good at keeping secrets.
Anyway, Essie told me some of the things that people are posting about me over at Kimkins. I sound like a nasty piece of work!! I admit I'm a little bit hurt by the comments - but I know I shouldn't be.

Dave, I checked out ALC and revealed myself!
You must have a look to see if you can log into Kimkins.

Hey, on one of the low carb sites - Fluffy Bum was at it again - I really can't stand her. Someone said well I was trying to help but if you don't need my advice I won't give it again (something like that). And Fluffy Bum replied "Good". She said other stuff to other posters too.
I replied to her - that for a 62 year old woman you sure are immature and very rude at times. Almost immediately I got a PM slap on the rest and my post deleted. My first slap on the wrist - how exciting!!

[luv2bslim]

ok..so do we all need to join this new site??? is that where you all are ;-(

pick me a new name..and I'm there :-)
love2bkimkim???

[luv2bslim]

You all must think I'm such a meanie. really I am not!!! :)it's actually the last thing I'd think of you :eek::eek:
You are no more mean, than I am sympathetic LOL

[luv2bslim]

Because I knew what you'd say. I was desperate and feeling like crap, and in a moment of weakness ...

OK...so..all our day to day forum stuff must be centred around the kimkim diet!

WhyTF is that?
why can't we leave them to it, you know it will fizzle out, and kk will be left all alone with few followers..if our forum keeps up like this, we'll have no followers either..and POH is digging a slow grave because of this ;-(

ok...sorry girls, but just my HO..

we need to focus BACK on POH...not KK..:(:(:(:(:(

[luv2bslim]

sigh...

[Essie]

Anyway, Essie told me some of the things that people are posting about me over at Kimkins. I sound like a nasty piece of work!! I admit I'm a little bit hurt by the comments - but I know I shouldn't be.



No you shouldn't be. I didn't want you to feel hurt. Your posts were always helpful. Those guys are the one with the problem, and they are the one's who are going to be hurt in the long run. They are the same people calling everyone else 'haters' & jealous. Jealous of what? It's like they've taken a vow of allegance to Kimmer and have the blinkers on totally. It's honestly like nothing has happened, as anyone who has said anything even slightly negative has been banned. And this thread on Kimmer, you saved my life, if that's not cult like I don't know what is? They just believe anthing she says without question, who does that! Like when you spoke about hormones, etc, I think with your study you'd know what you're talking about. And the abuse of laxatives I think is the worst. I get constipated on Atkins, but I take psyllium a natural fibre supplement, but these guys won't take it because it has carbs in it. But what they don't understand is that it's not absorbed! It's so frustrating. What happened to healthy debate?

Don't feel bad, they were doing the same to anyone in their usual narrow minded way.

[Essie]

Essie, SuzieQ told me before she joined, I never gave her a hard time. I just gave her my opinion, read up on it some more and told her to be careful. :)

You all must think I'm such a meanie. really I am not!!! :)

No you're not a meanie in any way, you've only ever been supportive. I think I was more embarrassed once I saw what it was all about.

[Sherrie]

Essie don't be embarrassed, we have all been there. When I first did LC in 2002 I was reckless myself and so impatient!!!

I think when I became a moderator here it slowly bought out the responsible side of me.

Trace I promise to pop in to POH regularly, maybe girls we have to gossip more in this thread too :)

I'm not stopping on the kimkins thing yet as it is very important to me and I want to see her investigated.

I don't post on ALC they banned me in 2002 when I was a newbie for mentioning this site (which as you know wasn't mine at the time), to another Aussie wanting to know where she could meet more Aussies to talk about Aussie related low carb stuff.

But its up to everyone here to keep talking and initiating things to talk about, this community is a team effort by all of us :)

[Sherrie]

And Essie I want to know the gossip on Snez over there!

[LC_Dave]

Hey, on one of the low carb sites - Fluffy Bum was at it again - I really can't stand her. Someone said well I was trying to help but if you don't need my advice I won't give it again (something like that). And Fluffy Bum replied "Good". She said other stuff to other posters too.
I replied to her - that for a 62 year old woman you sure are immature and very rude at times. Almost immediately I got a PM slap on the rest and my post deleted. My first slap on the wrist - how exciting!!

Be careful of her, she is part of the 'inner sanctum' and is protected. She has a license to be abusive, passive agressive and a total hypocrite. She has diplomatic immunity.

The Inner crowd at ALC hate me. They can't stand me. Heck I've realised that a lot of people can't stand me. LOL

I've left ALC voluntarily. I nolonger find it a respectful environment.

In actual fact there are quite a few boards I have left, because the 'inner gang' took a dislike to me. It's not what they say so much, as what they don't do. A kind of coldness.

If I am no longer at certain boards....that is why.

Active posters help make the community of the boards. If I'm not welcomed I'll simply leave.

P.S. Kimkins membership i still active. Haven't been since June. Some peeps PM'd me, now I feel bad! LOL I'll just leave it until the dust settles.

[Sherrie]

Reply to them and just say you were having trouble staying on plan so you thought you'd give Atkins another go and that your sorry you didn't check your PM's sooner. Theres nothing wrong with saying that and its true.

Fluffy almost never replies to me when I comment on something shes said for some reason. I find her very manipulating in her posts.

Dave I don't know why people can't stand you, never did understand that, you're always welcome here. I think I have gotten to know you fairly well especially since you made your forum, maybe these people just need to give themselves a chance to get to know you so they know how to take you?

[FindingMe]

Kimkins is very quiet now, But she is still deleting anything neg. I was reading one about the 14 year old leaving and it was gone.
Yes Dave I know what you mean about the inner crowd.
I havent talked much on kimkins, so I am not banned yet lol
sandi

[Moonie]

Kimkins is registered on the Better Business Bureau, and there is a place to write reviews...by the look there is only two for her, the rest are really against..
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=100055 868

she is listed in the directory as "Physicians & Surgeons: Medical Weight Reduction" ..

[Moonie]

http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportExtensionPage.aspx?CompanyID=10005586 8&sm=
Also says she has a BB rating and has recieved no complaints...

[Sherrie]

Thanks Moonie haven't seen that before.

[Snez]

Fluffy, seems to get away with a lot! She is a pain but I think we just need to ignore her posts and she might get the message.
The replie to the 14 yr old by grown adults was disgraceful.

[Sherrie]

Did you see Christins latest post on her blog? (replace the word dot with a . )

http://wwwDOTmytotaltransformationDOTblogspotDOTcom/

I am not helping their page ranks atm whilst I am still suspicious of their motives. Some of the things they have been saying lately makes me think this is more about covering ones butt. I hope that isn't so but thats how their coming across.

[Snez]

I don't know. What's annoying is saying that she still believes in the diet with some minor modifications.
"I still believe in the program as a valid basis and foundation for what has the potential with some modification to be a good dietary regime."

[Sherrie]

Kimkins is registered on the Better Business Bureau, and there is a place to write reviews...by the look there is only two for her, the rest are really against..
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=100055 868

she is listed in the directory as "Physicians & Surgeons: Medical Weight Reduction" ..

I did a review! How about everyone else? :)

[Snez]

I did a review too!

[FindingMe]

have you seen kimmers comment on line?

[Sherrie]

Thats shes not Heidi Diaz and that Heidi Diaz became a business partner after she bought out Catherine? Funny that considering, if I recall correctly (it will be on the first one or two posts about kimkins on the slambboard blog) she was Heidi Diaz when she signed the contract with Catherine and Heidi Diaz on the cheques Catherine made out to her etc etc

Also her issues with student loans etc that shes posted about under the screen name of Kimmer (duh) also happens to be the same issues as Heidi Diaz!

Her son Brandon, well what do you know Heidi Diaz has one of them too!

The list goes on and on...

[Essie]

Have you seen these on the BB

Rating: Reviewed By: Date: 09/07/2007
Please remove all the false reviews for KIMKINS.COM
These come from slamboard.com which is owned by a scorned partner who backed out before the site became VERY popular. Please research before you make judgement. Kimmer has helped a many people...but is very private.

This is a good website and I received my money worth.

Thank you,


And here's another :rolleyes:

Rating: Reviewed By: : 09/07/2007
wow, there are some really amazingly horrible people in here, I would have never guessed. For some reason I always thought that the BBB was for honest and educated comments, and it would seem that is not so, or all the nasty things being said about the Kimkins plan would not be here. To all of you that are so blatantly lying, your really should stop it. I am embarrassed for all the stupid people here.

I started Kimkins a few weeks ago and have lost over 23 pounds. Joining this type of plan was actually my doctors idea, I had never heard of it before. I was overweight, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high sugar levels, and anemic. After being on the Kimkins plan for only three weeks I was able to stop all my medication, and cut my cholesterol meds in half.

Kimkins does NOT promote laxatives in any way shape or form, nor does she support eating 200 calories like someone said in an early post. Anyone taking time to actually read the rules will see she says to eat till satisfied, you should never go hungry, and to take vitamins.

My last labs came back perfect because of this diet, and I finally lost weight, something I have been trying to do for the longest time and nothing has worked as well as Kimkins.

Anyone saying anything bad has there head so far up their a** that they haven't probably seen daylight in years, and just no sense due to lack of sunlight.

Hee hee

[Sherrie]

Bleh the ones who have their head up someones ass.. somehow I don't think is us...

[Snez]

A Kimkins member and new Admin Pretty Paula is posting at low carb friends - was posting I think she's since gone to bed. She is defending Kimmer and the plan but a lot are concerned she may not be Pretty Paula. I think she maybe is. I remember Pretty Paula early on and then she disappeared for a bit I think or I just didn't notice her there because their were so many new personal journals. Most of the time I was in the other threads - beginners, health chat, kimkins cafe etc.
I wish I could see my diary because she posted a few times in there and I posted in her diary. I remember the picture she posted with her hands in the air - she was doing some dj work and she posted that pic showing her new hair colour.

[Sherrie]

I haven't got up to her yet, I just haven't had time for those sites the last couple of days, I am still on page 331 LOL

Maybe Essie could do some detective work for you? :)

[Snez]

Where are you Essie?

After today I'll be too busy for those sites - back to school and all next week.

[Essie]

I'm around. I've got an assignment or twenty as well. But I'll keep my sleuthing eye out. It's actually pretty boring there ATM.